Noah’s recent post on Achewood (especially the comments) and Tom’s recent post on Judd Apatow writing a William Shatner sketch for Saturday Night Live, are making me think about a certain kind of humour.
People on the Achewood thread are talking about standup-style humour, at least the kind we hate, and what it is, and why we hate it. A couple of years ago, my husband got satellite radio, and had a phase of listening to the standup channel on long drives. Until that experience, I had thought I liked standup. But during those long drives, I got to thinking, “Man! Standup comedy is just a societal tool for enforcing conformity, isn’t it?”
Outside of comedy geniuses, standup seems to be all “Men are like this. Women are like this!” “Black people are like this. White people are like this!” “Straight men are like this. Straight men better not be like this if they know what’s good for them!”
Which brings us to Apatow having Shatner shit on his fans: both those guys make their living primarily off of people who are nerds, losers, you know, people who escape through fantasy, who at least have the image of themselves as people who fail at romance, or are socially awkward or immature. People who need to “get a life,” because the one they have is not the one they’re supposed to want.
So is it a self-deprecating kind of joke, and we’re supposed to think Shatner and Apatow are also losers who need to get a life (except not because being a geek is fun)? Are they trying to appeal to the cool kids who are not Shatner (or embryonic Apatow) fans, to convince them that Shatner and Apatow are really better than those trekkie losers? Or is it just making sure as many people as possible feel vaguely insecure that they aren’t measuring up to standup comedy stereotypes, and fall in line and/or, you know, buy something?
I have to admit, I loved that Shatner skit. I saw it a long time ago, and perhaps I’d reassess now, but…yeah, it seemed genuinely mean-spirited in a bite-the-hand-that-feeds-you way which seems a little different from stand up (which as you say tends to be about reassurance.)
Partly I may just want to defend Shatner, though, because he has, in his way, a real genius for humor. Have you heard his album? Declaiming Mr. Tambourine Man? It’s one of the funniest things I’ve ever heard. His performance on Airplane 2 was pretty fantastic too…and his hosting of the American version of Iron Chef (I think he was shown at one point riding a rhino…? Could I have made that up?)
Anyway…yeah, he’s Adam West’s only real rival in the category of paunchy-white-guy-television-star-camp.
I must admit, though, that I’ve never seen T.J. Hooker.
So, to answer your question…I think he’s supposed to be better than the fans — or at least than a certain kind of fan. But…on the other hand…I was a pretty enthusiastic trekkie (read books about the show, though I never went to cons) and I thought it was funny…which would lean more towards you other interpretation I guess….
i go between thinking shatner is really funny (yeah, like his declaimed pop songs, & he was really good on boston legal) & kind of pathetic, that he has been making his living these past 5-10 years on being a parody of himself, & he felt the need to plastic up his face….
but maybe it's different because i was too young to appreciate the original star trek in a non-ironic fashion (actually, i hadn't seen a full episode until a year ago).
This is sort of related, but I recall reading something about the filmaker/actor Mike White criticizing Apatow ‘s newer work for no longer supporting the underdog, the loser, but instead making fun of him.
-http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2007/05/mike_white_calls_out_judd_apat.html-
As far as a better than thing going on, I didn’t get that sense. The ridicule isn’t for being a fan of the show, it’s for expressing that fannishness in a ridiculous way. Maybe I’m misunderstanding your point though.
I loved the “Get a Life” sketch and it was completely at Trekkies’ expense, not at all at Shatner’s. He tells them, “When I was your age, I lived my life. I didn’t hide at home watching tv.” I forget the exact wording, but it’s in the transcript.
Of course, people watch SNL as a substitute for having a cool Saturday night on the town. The show is an imitation party. You could say the “Get a Life” sketch people allows the SNL audience to tell themselves they aren’t losers, those wimps at the Star Trek convention are. Or the audience may laugh because they see themselves in the Star Trek losers.
Or maybe they don’t want to be out on a Saturday night and they just want to see a comedy program and they figure it’s pretty stupid to get obsessed about an old tv show the way those Trekkies do. In which case the sketch is still funny.
I think the Shatner strip is actually funnier to Trekkies than to those who hate them. As a rule, these tend to be pretty intelligent, self-aware people who realize they don’t have the culturally-sanctioned “cool” life. While some might be hurt, most I think enjoy the chance to laugh at themselves.
I also think the general hating on stand-up comedy is silly. Yes, most stand-up is crappy, but so are most comics, most painting, most books, most poems (etc.) Sometimes standup can be magical as well… and while sometimes it is just about stereotyping and grouping people, quite often it’s surreal, zany, physical…or whatever kind of humor there is. Much comics began as cultural caricature too and while that may be distasteful, it doesn’t define the genre.
I agree the skit is funnier to Trekkies and given the accurate specifics contained in the questions, at least one of the writer's was obviously a huge fan.
Eric, didn't we actually see Shatner speak at a con a few weeks after the sketch originally aired? During the Q&A, I think somebody asked him one of the questions from the sketch and it went right over his head.
I wonder if that sketch would go over as well if you substituted Shatner with somebody like Reggie Jackson or Terry Bradshaw and had the fans dressed in their sports gear asking incredibly detailed questions about a particular at-bat or offensive drive from thirty years ago?
I would love to see that sketch, Bryan. Sports-nerds don’t take nearly enough crap.
Noah, that’s because we get these transcendent moments of heavenly bliss that make us totally immune to all crap.
***
Bryan, can you point to a couple of current stand-ups who’re good, nuanced? Flipping channels after the game last night, I saw two minutes of Dane Cook and it was like watching North Korean TV. I don’t mean to be contrary, it’s just that I know I’ll never do the work myself.
(I do think Charlene Yi’s a scream, but she’s like a meta-comedian.)
– Patton Oswalt, Zach Galifainakis, Louis C.K.
I think Dave Attel can be pretty funny.
Most of my friends would include David Cross in that list, but I find him sort of grating, like a know it all teenager who can’t get over how stupid his parents are. But, to be fair, he has some funny bits.
I don’t think sports nerds will ever get that kind of ridicule, deserved or not. Sports are just too sexy. It’s okay to be obsessed with them in our culture.
I second the Zach Galifianakis nomination – he's really funny.
I'd also recommend Eugene Mirman and Demetri Martin.
And, though they're more in the Steven Martin, neo-vaudeville tradition: the comedy duo Slovin & Allen. Seeing their "Time Machine" sketch was truly one of the great theatrical experiences of my life. Their "Who's On First" bit is also very excellent.
ok, on the balance of the evidence, i can get behind the idea that the shatner sketch was thoroughly mean-spirited *&* really affectionate towards trekkies. i wonder what the civilian population watching it thought.
uland, thanks for that article. he doesn't elaborate much, but yeah, i think i agree (especially as, as you may have observed, i thought knocked up was a real low point).
i second the mention of patton oswalt as good contemporary standup (i chatted up a woman for half an hour last san diego comic-con because her badge said “guest of patton oswalt.” i was too shy/polite to ever mention him, though. we just ended up talking about justin green).
zach galifinakis gets on my nerves. to me, he seems like the epitome of hipster ironic it’s-funny-cuz-it’s-not-funny. i also have a personal vendetta against hipster winter beards, though.
a comedian i like right now is demitri martin. he’s got a bit of the detached hipster cult-of-the-amateur thing going, but i like when he tries to be mitch hedberg. cause if mitch hedberg plans to stay dead, i’ll take what i can get.
That's a good description of Demetri Martin.
Thinking of other NYC comedians – I like Todd Barry, too. I think I've told his "Trader Joe's Joke" to all of my friends (giving him proper credit, of course).
I do think Galifianakis' Nathaniel Buckner character is pretty funny though. I also really like his work with Tim & Eric.
Bryan, I’ve never been to a con (must have been Newman)…but as a sports nut, a comics nut, and a trekkie (oh, and a music obsessive), I officially have too many things to distract me from my supposed job.
Sports nuts (and sporting figures) do take shit in places like Sat. Night Live, btw. When Peyton Manning hosted, there were some highlights. The dynamic is a little different, though…I mean obsessive baseball fans (seamheads) can be lumped in with other stereotypical nerds (like Trekkies, etc.), but Football obsessives clearly fall into the “macho” and/or “mainstream” category. The much-rarer basketball and hockey obsessives are perhaps too marginal for ridicule? (Although there’s always the Canadian stereotypical hockey fan to fall back on for “humor”)—I saw Adam Sandler do stand up once and he had a funny bit about Wilt Chamberlain’s 100 pt. game…but that’s about the game not the fans (Sandler was pretty damn funny in standup…but his movies are mostly unwatchable)
I would also recommend Jim Gaffigan. He’s really good with the surreal and zany stuff that Eric was talking about.
"i can get behind the idea that the shatner sketch was thoroughly mean-spirited *&* really affectionate towards trekkies. i wonder what the civilian population watching it thought."
They thought it was funny.
Bill – I think you meant to ask Eric about current stand-ups, but I’ll also recommend Louis CK, Zach Galifainakis and Patton Oswald. I’ll also point you to a podcast called The Sound of Young America which has a very strong focus on modern stand-up.
Eric – I see what you’re saying, and I’ll throw out the Chicago Super Fans on SNL and the Farrlley Brother’s movie Fever Pitch as more examples of comedy at the expense of the sports fan.
Still, as someone in both camps, I find it funny that the avid sports fan doesn’t seem to be judged as harshly by our culture as the Sci-Fi/Comic Book fan, even though both groups essentially display the same behavior.
Sorry, Bryan, I'm still coming down from last night's game. But thanks, & to all, for standup recs. I'll keep my eyes open and see what's on iTunes.
& speaking as a sports fan only since adulthood, it's an awfully efficient way to interact with people. You can count on most people in a certain locale being fans of team X, but few being SF/purebreed dog/crochet fans.
(And it's a lot easier to get a job in or around sports.)
Yeah, it’s simple majority rule. More people like sports; sci-fi/comics, whatever is relatively smaller (though lots of folks like those too.)
Obsession is obsession; it’s only nerdy if it isn’t other people’s obsession, basically.
eh, i’ll make it a new post.